Wayne: Hi, I’m Wayne Jones, and welcome to re:Christian, a critical and satirical reconsideration of Christianity, the Bible, and God. This is episode 12: “My Interview with the Virgin Mary.” Welcome to the show and the first thing I want to do is know how to refer to you. I don’t want to be disrespectful.
Mary: Hi, Wayne, thanks for having me on. You can call me Mary. That’s my name! As the Good Book says, I was just a humble normal girl before the angel and then God got involved in my life. So, yeah, Mary is fine.
Wayne: Thank you. And again, welcome to the podcast, Mary. I appreciate your giving me some of your time.
Mary: No problem. You’re welcome.
Wayne: So, I don’t think I need to recount the story for most of my listeners. You gave birth to Jesus Christ, on whose teachings and life the Christian religion is based, but his father was not your future husband Joseph but it was, well, God.
Mary: Yes, God came over me, and suddenly I was pregnant with the Saviour of the universe.
Wayne: How did you feel at the time?
Mary: Frankly, I was unhappy, even though I agreed with the request—if you can call it a request when it’s an emissary from God asking—I agreed, but both Joseph and I were planners, in all aspects of our lives. Like most couples, we wanted children, but not right away. He was still building up the clientele for his carpentry business, and I was so young I didn’t know anything about real life, really.
Wayne: How old were you?
Mary: I was fourteen.
Wayne: Jesus!
Mary: Yes, exactly.
Wayne: So, I feel I have to ask. How is it possible for a woman to give birth if she does not have sexual relations and then conceive?
Mary: You do get to the point, don’t you.
Wayne: Sorry, but—
Mary: It’s okay. It’s a logical question to ask.
Wayne: And … ?
Mary: The truth is, Wayne, that as you know, getting pregnant without conceiving with another man, another human man, is not possible. Again, the truth is, frankly and honestly, that Joseph and I were in love. He was older than me, twenty-one, but I loved him and wanted to start a family with him some time. It’s a story as old as time. Our love also entailed a physical attraction, and the one time that we engaged in sex before we actually got married, I got pregnant.
Wayne: Wow. That’s amazing in a way, and amazing that you would tell me, but in another way it makes perfect sense. I never did get the idea of God “coming over” you, or however they have it in the Bible.
Mary: Yes. It’s not that complicated after all, is it?
Wayne: So you got pregnant out of wedlock, which would have been a shame to your family at that time.
Mary: Yes, that’s right. And that’s where the idea for the story about God being the father came from. Joseph and I were worried for weeks, and one night when both of us had had a little too much wine to drink, he told me he had a crazy idea. And of course that so-called crazy idea became the basis for one of the largest religions in the world.
Wayne: I’m still reeling a bit. But, I guess: how did you get people to believe such a—such a crazy story, to use your own word?
Mary: It was the same then as it is now. People, humans, are desperate for salvation, desperate to have the few decades that evolution has given us on this planet extended into eternity. Yes, there were a few skeptics—Thomas was skeptical about the whole thing just as he was about the so-called resurrection. But most people were happy to embrace the story. Suddenly their lives had a purpose. And as time went by, and Jesus was born and started his itinerant preaching as many other men also did at the time, he eventually, so to speak, won out. People came to believe in him as—what’s the term the young kids say these days?—oh, yes, the real deal.
Wayne: That’s an interesting insight. Could I just pick up on something you just mentioned? You called it the so-called resurrection. Did I hear that right?
Mary: Yes.
Wayne: So, you mean, ah—well, I wonder if you could elaborate on that?
Mary: It’s the same story of deception really. It’s not something I’m proud of and it’s not something that I’m proud that my oldest son is involved in. Yes, he was crucified, there’s no denying that. But there were no nails and certainly no sword of whatever it was in the side. He was tied to the cross, just as the two thieves were. Basic physics will tell you that if you nail someone to a cross and then raise that cross to vertical, the nails will either rip through his flesh or possibly tear his hands right off. No. It was a sham. He was tied to the cross.
Wayne: But the Bible, the Gospels, say he was dead when they took your son down and before they put him in the tomb.
Mary: He always had that ability from when he was a kid. Not only can he hold his breath and remain perfectly still, but he can also lower his heart rate so that he looks pretty knackered out. Dead, as everyone thought. Hew stayed in the tomb for a couple of nights—we had hidden some food and water in one of the dark corners—but eventually he got bored and sick of it. He managed to move the rock at the entrance. To this day I still don’t know how he even budged it enough to squeeze his way out, but he did, and then the next day when people started seeing him again, and actually believing the story, and calling him the son of God and all of that. Well, I think it went to his head, and he liked the attention and adulation. He went along with it.
Wayne: That’s unbelievable.
Mary: Well, it’s more believable than a dead man coming back to life, don’t you think?
Wayne: I suppose you do have a point. Well, Mary, you’ve been very generous with your time. I just have two more questions.
Mary: Sure, no problem.
Wayne: What ever happened to Jesus then, I mean, if he didn’t ascend to heaven and all that?
Mary: He enjoyed his god status for a couple of months, but he’s always been a restless boy too. After he got enough women to sleep with him in order to grant them salvation, and after he got his share of free wine at feasts—that’s where the idea of him making water out of wine came from by the way—after all that he told his followers, yes, his followers by then, that he had to head east to meditate on the way that he and the world would take, and that he would return in forty days. I still remember him slathering it on when he made that announcement, being all sombre and looking to the sky (what a ham!), but people bought it and he went east, of somewhere, and we never heard of him after that.
Wayne: Wow. I’m … I’ve got a thousand questions even just about that, but I promised you just one more.
Mary: Shoot.
Wayne: You mentioned that he was your oldest son? Did I hear that right? You have other children?
Mary: Listen, Wayne, you’ve been very kind of have me on your show, but perhaps you can invite me back again and I’ll tell you about that. About Jesus’s brothers and sister. Okay?
Wayne: For sure. I, I, I’ll be in touch.
Mary: I’ll be happy to hear from you. God bless, as they say. Ho, boy, I still can’t get used to hearing that drivel.
And that’s all for this episode. Thanks for listening. Please check the show notes for a full transcript and for how to contact me. If you have suggestions and comments, I’d love to hear them. And please join me again on Thursday.